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Is it the time to ban bots?
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Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 I don't know if you still think allowing bots are good idea, but I think it is probably starting to look like it is a bad idea.With no limit on bots, eventually only those that use bots can compete since it is possible to program a bot that can calculate 8 most profitable products to sell in your stores every 15 mins and to switch to those. It is possible to program bots that buy only just enough products. In addition, writing a bot that can stock and switch products on one store type mean you can also do it for other stores. Running 10 companies with bots are not much difficult than running 1 company so eventually you'll have every top players have companies that each focus on each sector and all of them are run almost perfectly by bots. This is something that is impossible to be done by non bot users for the following reasons, you can't stay up 24 hours snd check every 15 mins. Let's say you have enough people helping you run your account so you can cover 24 hours, it is still a huge micromanaging to calculate the best 8 products to sell in each story type, buy just enough units to stock for not much more than one tick. I don't claim ballc's bots is perfect which according to him it is not, but even if his bots are relatively weak and a very good non bot player can compete with him, people will code a better and better bots until we have companies run by almost perfect bots competing with each others and the human players are being left behind. There are good reasons why most online games ban bots. Is it the time to start doing that with this game? |
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Paco Co RJ: Mr. Costa CO: Mr. Costa Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 89 Karma: 30 Joined: Mar 8, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Agreed
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 +1 Also for anyone new to this go check out the newbie forum thread where we hash alot of this out. |
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Richard Ripberger RJ: Rip CO: Rip Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 153 Karma: 78 Joined: Mar 28, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 I think I have made my position but just in case here it is again.I don't think it would be very easy to eliminate bots but it would be easy to minimize their advantage. If marketing were applied to product lines and say 20% of marketing was attached to the store and 10% to each product then you could flush the marketing to zero for a product whenever a shelf product is changed. Big stores with bots or not a person with a smaller store and consistent products that were well marketed could still do well against the larger store changing products multiple times a day. |
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 I think that could work as a mechanic but we're talking about developing the game around these bots. Its nuts.
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Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 I honestly don't think the shelf switch mechanic will be a problem long-term. Eventually companies will grow big enough that they can just have every product being sold at once in a bunch of big stores. If it was added bots would just be adapted to run production chains and keep selling the same products at super cheap prices with 8 product types in each store, and it would only really hurt the small time companies who are trying to change their strategy after a huge company flooded the market with low cost items (like how the designer dress market has been being flooded with $2000 dresses).Where bots shine is allowing you to run a TON of companies all at once. I was running a couple of big companies on the ratjoy server, and it's very time consuming. Look at BallC on that server - 24 companies being run at once. Doing that manually just wouldn't be feasible. I for one wouldn't want to run even 5 big companies, yet anyone with a good bot can run 10 or more of them just fine. |
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Moe Jack RJ: Moejack CO: Moe Jack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 128 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 7, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Part of me doesn't care, but if I had to choose I'd say the game is better if you're playing against humans.
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 lol dude really
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id dumb RJ: iddumb CO: ID Dumb Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 "But don't let me interrupt your lynching/scapegoating..."Seems like you think "we" are after "you"? In fact, I just want consistency. If bots are allowed, that's fine with me. It's written in the TOS to allow subjective interpretation. I'm just asking for clarification. |
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Scott Newhouse RJ: Patrick Bateman CO: Patrick Bateman Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 15, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 "That's the real problem - Too much micromanagement involved in trying to run multiple companies."That's the problem with allowing bots. People who have the ability to use one will always have an advantage over actual people playing. I wouldn't say allowing bots is inherently bad, but it seems like bad game design as it creates two classes out of your players. |
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Paco Co RJ: Mr. Costa CO: Mr. Costa Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 89 Karma: 30 Joined: Mar 8, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 And i can attest for it first handOn Capitalism server im in the same market and one of your companies and its defenatly not easy to compete vs a bot since i dont have the time to crunch all the numbers and run a perfectly "oiled" company, i think im have the second or third largest company in that market and still my stores are 10 times smaller than yours and everyday the gap widens. |
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Cian Kemp RJ: Cian Kemp CO: Cian Kemp Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 183 Karma: 58 Joined: Apr 9, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Paco - one reason you may be having trouble keeping up is the fact that you have about $5 million worth of goods (assuming value is roughly 1/2 the current average store price) priced at $15 million on the b2b. That's about 1/6 of your total assets just sitting there losing you money as the goods devalue due to prices going down and qualities going up. If you cut your prices to reasonable levels and sold off all that extra inventory you could have larger stores.Right now I don't think bots have really helped BallC much. Saved him time, but not put him way ahead - the pre-nerf aircraft market did that, and if I had been the one to get my company deleted instead of him I'd have used the liquid capital to get into aircraft and be the one with the aircraft-funded headstart even though I don't use bots. It really just comes down to if RJ wants bots in his game or not. If he does, ok. If he doesn't, now is the time to ban them. In either case, BallC doesn't need to be banned or lynched or anything - he's been playing by the rules. |
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id dumb RJ: iddumb CO: ID Dumb Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 7 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 I'd like clarification on a comment made back in April about BETA that contradicts the TOS.If you see so many posts mentioning your name (which I didn't, but whatever), maybe you have too much time on your hands thanks to bots. "The issue has been written out pretty clear." That's a nice perspective you have. If it's clear to you, wonderful. Thanks for that clarification. |
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 2 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Yea I just want to say again I dont want him banned or anything. He had permission months ago. I just think we need to revisit it and we now have a clearer idea of what all this entails. And the reason we keep mentioning you is because you are the most conspicuous botter, #1 and all that. Everyone sees your company name in their news feed constantly if they a lot of product. Its not cuz we hate you. |
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Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Cian Kemp,You're looking at the wrong server to see if bots have helped BallC much. The new server just started so the advantage of bots are still not allowing him too far ahead from the other players. Now look at the beta server and you'll see: Chairman of Ball Mart Jewelry Chairman of Ball Mart Sports Chairman of Ball Mart Aviation Owner of Ball Mart Aircraft Owner of Ball Mart Watercraft Chairman of Ball Mart Industrial Chairman of Ball Mart Apparel Chairman of Ball Mart Automobiles Chairman of Ball Mart Mining Chairman of Ball Mart Hardware Chairman of Ball Mart Smelters Chairman of Ball Mart Office Supply Chairman of Ball Mart Electronics Chairman of Ball Mart Supermarkets Chairman of Ball Mart Farm Markets Chairman of Ball Mart Jewelers Chairman of Ball Mart Watersports Chairman of Ball Mart Food Courts Chairman of Ball Mart Petrochem Chairman of Ball Mart Gas Stations Chairman of Ball Mart Cafes Chairman of Ball Mart Toys Chairman of Ball Mart Crystal Juror of THE SUPREME COURT Chairman of Ball Mart Electric (Player Last Active: June 21, 2012, 11:28 AM) Level: Trillionaire (Level 12) Fame: Trivial (Level 13) Networth: $1,723,511,138,198.87 ($1.72 T) Cash: $4,099,047,451.34 ($4.09 G) Age: 28 Now that is a preview of what can and will happen in the new server if bots are not banned. |
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eric scott RJ: Erik Scott CO: Sappo Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 130 Karma: 29 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Jun 21, 2012 Heck I almost missed this thread, what with the other one and all :PQuote - BallC "That's the real problem - Too much micromanagement involved in trying to run multiple companies. Hell, too much micromanagement just trying to run 20 factories, 12 stores, and 10 R&D's in ONE company. The solution: reduce the micromanagement required." So from what I understand, you defend your actions by telling the rest of us to 'work harder, that's why you're not being competative' (from the other thread), but here you are quoted saying basically 'Working hard is... well... hard work, I won't have any of that!' |
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