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Not being able to cancel upgrades is really painful
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zxektok megatron RJ: zxektok Post Rating: -5 + / - Total Posts: 140 Karma: 170 Joined: Mar 6, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 it solves the one of the not being able to finish our build using influence and having to sit it out.....if you could see your influence - you wouldn't have pressed it. If you still press it then sorry but i have no sympathy for you..... |
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Svaha Woodhouse RJ: Svaha CO: Post Rating: -6 + / - Total Posts: 27 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 18, 2012) I must say there is a simple way to prevent from miss clicking the "+1" and "MAX" buttons.If you can't control the mouse very accurately,try playing the game with 150% or bigger. As I know, IE、Firefox、Chrome and many other internet browsers(if not every) can do so. I am talked into 2 things: 1.David MacIver is a bit careless. 2.The "+1" and "MAX" buttons do are a bit too close for some people like him. For 1:How about treating it as an exception and manually cancel the expansion since he type so many words which could show he is really painful about his miss clicking? For 2:If you[edited:the boss] are too busy to insert more space between the two buttons, just add some words in newbie station's "Questions and Answers" to tell those who are a bit careless as Mr. David MacIver to play this game with bigger percentage of page size. I think arguing things like this waste too much energy of everyone. Boss, why not just truncate his expansion like you truncate the logs and type a few words in newbie's Q&A about the zoom in function many browsers have, and forget this thing to concentrate on coding or the sql problems? Is this the end? |
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: 5 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 FFS. The problem is not the individual mistakes that people make. The problem is the disproportionate level of punishment the game imposes for what should be a very minor mistake.
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Svaha Woodhouse RJ: Svaha CO: Post Rating: -2 + / - Total Posts: 27 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 You say it's a very minor mistake...I must agree the punishment is a bit heavy. But I still think this time you should be treat as individual case. For people do not frequently make this kind of mistake. And the most important, for the boss has too many things which are more important than how heavy the punishment should be. So please, just ask the boss to cancel the expansion for you and wait until those which have higher priority been finished,then discuss about how should the punishment be. For things recently I noticed, every day update issue、store pricing system needed to be changed、producing & researching query coding and other things that I didn't meet, are more important than if miss clicking is minor or not. Indeed, your opinions are very important as well. But the boss has only two hands, let things most people concerned go first OK? This thread contains enough words to express there is such an issue, let's make deeper discussion between only players before the boss is no longer as busy as now OK? If you want to talk more, I'm willing to make a deep conversation with you since I have much free time(not right now, in my country it's bed time and I need sleep). Don't use the word FFS, I want to push things better, not want to discourage you. Before I go to bed,let me shorten your opinion and express mine. You say:"Not being able to cancel upgrades is really painful" "the disproportionate level of punishment the game imposes for what should be a very minor mistake(is too large)." I say:"After looking at the +1 and max buttons, I think miss clicking does happen for a few (or some) people, but they have ways to prevent it if they always remember to be careful.But if people is not careful for any reason out of their expectation, compare canceling the action and lose say like 10M, to not canceling the action and have a whole week having no income but still paying huge amount of maintaining fee, will it be too heavy as a punishment?" I think it may vary from the way you treat your production and sale. If you try to sell the goods you produced in B2B, you may get enough income to supply the fee until the expansion is finished. So you are not meant to be bankrupt. But if you can cancel the action it'll be easier to solve your problem, that's why you stress on needing canceling expansion function. If the boss decided to change it, there might be people complaining about accidentally canceling the expansion and losing the fee of it. So I think this is no solving at all if you can cancel the action. It's just a setting, no matter how you change it, there still will be people losing money accidentally. Unless you can have a definitely different and correct thought, you can't clearly calculate out which setting is better. Calm down and think thoroughly, then type down your thoughts and when I wake up I'll keep on thinking who's right. But even if you proof you are right to the boss, changes still need time to complete. As I said, urgent issues are plenty, lower priority things should be put at second. No matter you agree with me or not, you should treat this time as individual things and ask(or please) the boss to help you. For you, that's the urgent thing. I repeat again, I'm not discouraging you, I just want things going better. |
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Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 People, even knowledgeable computer users, do make mistakes of this nature more than you'd think, Svaha. That's (one reason) why people put years into studying user interface design, why projects put teams of people on the UI. I have switched poker sites due to one having a better UI than another.Rather than "David McIver is a bit careless", you could have said, "Human beings are a bit careless". Careless, forgetful, butterfingered. I suspect you won't have to remember very many seconds ago until the last time you personally had to use a backspace key or ctrl-Z. I've had to use my backspace key dozens of times just typing up this post. Judge not, lest ye be judged. It makes the world a calmer, more communicative place. |
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zxektok megatron RJ: zxektok Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 140 Karma: 170 Joined: Mar 6, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 I rarely use the +1 button anyway - who expands buildings 1 at a time???? Use the number entry bit. You funny! |
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 18, 2012) For what it's worth, I don't actually care about having the consequences of my mistake being rectified. What's done is done, and I've more or less recovered. It was painful, but no more than a short term inconvenience. I was making an observation about bad UI, not going "Halp! Please fix it for me!". I also wasn't saying "Fix this now! Fix this now!". I was making an observation about bad UI (And it is bad UI. There is no reasonable doubt about that). The priority of such isn't up to me. Users make mistakes. If you've never worked in software you wouldn't believe the frequency users make mistakes. Making those mistakes less easy to make is good and useful, but you will never make those mistakes go away. You can attach confirm dialogues to every action and people will get used to them and always click them. You can attach big warning signs saying "Don't do this in these circumstances or it will explode, killing us all" and people will get used to seeing the warning signs and they will fade into the background. People habituate to anything they regularly use, which means that there's always going to be a certain base level of user error. The solution is to make the consequences of the mistakes less severe, and the way to do that here is to provide some way of cancelling building upgrades that doesn't involve waiting while you've locked your main source of income out for the better part of a week. And Svaha, if you're trying to suggest that the consequences are not currently severe, I don't think you've done the maths. The store in question was making me about 2 million per tick. It was locked out for 70 hours. Thats $560M, or about 5 times my company's net worth, of lost revenue. I managed to offset about half that with emergency measures, but it's still a lot. Further, this is not an edge case - the buildings you're most likely to want to expand are the ones most likely to be making you lots of money. |
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Svaha Woodhouse RJ: Svaha CO: Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 27 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 18, 2012) Are you sure the UI is bad?Why do you click at the right edge of +1 button and causing you miss click the max button if the button is relatively large? Is the expansion occurred right after the max button is clicked? If you won't take a look of how long it spends before clicking the start expanding button,will you take a look of how long it should spend if there is a pop up confirm message? Won't you treat the pop up confirm message(if there was one) as the "yes, I agreed" you may see when you install softwares? You say this mistake come from bad UI? I only agree with you if the player is drunk or have taking some drugs or he is just wake up. But in those conditions there is no good UI. (Mister Death,I think the expansion UI is very simple and all the buttons are large enough unless you still use a small and old CRT monitor.How can you make the UI better if it has very little things inside it?) You say losing 560M as punishment is too heavy? As I said if the expansion is revokable is a thing you can't caculate out which one is better as no matter how are the UI and settings designed, people lose money accidentally when they are careless(I had played many browsers games, not matter how good the UI is or how friendly the setting is people still make mistakes, and there is no solving way unless themselves remember to be careful.Mostly, why projects put teams of people in the UI is because of efficiency and convenience not miss clicking). If the expansion became revokable, someone may say he accidentally cancel the expansion and lose money and ask to lower the punishment like you. This is a fair game, everyone play with the same UI. If you say it's too heavy and the boss have to lower the punishment, why not just print a lot of money and give them to you? The bigger the store you have the bigger the risk should be when making decisions. If people lose 560M when they only have a 10 m^2 store, I might think the punishment is too heavy but it's not your situation. A huge company may go bankrupt for only a few wrong decision like what happened in real world in the past several years(like Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.). Should those people blame the god for punish them too heavy? For these kind of things do heavily affect people's happiness, the government has a must reason to help those people. So if you ask the boss a help personally, I don't think it's wrong. But if you ask the boss to change the settings, it's like the businessman ask the government to change the laws to fit their profit for their own sake(SOPA and the like). Now please tell me more about your opinions if you still think you are right and I'll try to be talked into or talked you into. |
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Nwabudike Morgan RJ: CEO Nwabudike Morgan CO: CEO Nwabudike Morgan Post Rating: 30 + / - Total Posts: 108 Karma: 344 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 Yes, the user interface for construction is bad: it is easy to cause irreparable errors. It's not as bad as the store management interface, but the presence of even less usable interfaces doesn't shine kindly on the construction interface. Although people will always make mistakes, a good user interface will do its best to mitigate the frequency and severity of such errors.
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 The best UI as far as I know is the "layer manager box" in Adobe Photoshop. But I doubt if anyone wants that here.
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Svaha Woodhouse RJ: Svaha CO: Post Rating: -3 + / - Total Posts: 27 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 Why the answer is yes?Take MS Windows for example,almost every new version of it causing a lot of people complaining about they don't like the new interface. But when the newer one published, they say the one disliked by them before is better. And the same things occur every time there is a new version. It's not the UI's fault, it's people dislike to get used to different things. 1.The +1 button are large enough to prevent from miss clicking the max next to it. 2.The button tip popped up is enough to warn people what the button means. If you say the UI is bad because it uses a different way with the games you have played. You are just lazy to get used to new things. What should be corrected is the carelessness of players not the user interface(at least not this one). Any different opinions should be spoken out loudly for this thing need to be discussed more to have a common agreement. Sigh, in my country when Windows XP was published, people often call it as Windows wrong P. But now they love it and hate vista and 7. Asking people to change their habits is very hard. For this, maybe change the UI and settings is correct... |
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David Stark RJ: Zarkonnen CO: David Stark Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 53 Karma: 23 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 18, 2012 So the reason I was using the +1 button was that I was using the UI on a mobile phone, which makes things pretty fiddly. On a phone, the distance between +1 and max is smaller than the size of my fingers.Other David is right: users, even experienced ones, will always make some input mistakes for all kinds of reasons. And sure, some errors aren't going to be easily undoable, like buying wrong items. But if you list the wrong items, or at the wrong price, you can undo it. And if you start making or researching the wrong stuff, you can too. It's only building that's not cancellable. In terms of realism, if a company went and committed itself to appending a massive extension to one of its stores construction for which would take a year, if two hours after signing the contracts with the construction firm they wanted to back out, they could. Sure it'd be an expensive and unpleasant process, but they would not have to look on helplessly as the construction firm came and started rebuilding their store. |
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Svaha Woodhouse RJ: Svaha CO: Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 27 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 19, 2012 If you are using the UI on a mobile phone, if it should change should be considered by the boss himself, according to if he want to attract more people who use mobile phone coming in to play this game.If he want, not only those UIs with +1 & max need to be changed, the whole site needs to be changed thoroughly. The only way for you to encourage the boss to do this is invite a lot of people to play this game via mobile phone and the boss may do so. And, in terms of realism, if a company went and committed itself to appending a massive extension to one of its stores construction for which would take a year, if two hours after signing the contracts with the construction firm they wanted to back out, YES, they could. But the company's fame will become notorious, and either there will be no construction company willing to accept that company's construction request, or have to pay double or triple to let the construction company willing to expand the store for you. If you insist on realism, the canceling expansion punishment should be rose to the level which would be a bit scary. If people think that would be better, then ask the boss to change it. I will still be fine with new punishment needed for the canceling. |
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: -3 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 19, 2012 Scott: Would you like some extra hay for your straw man construction factory line?
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