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WARNING: Some of your B2B activities are under investigation

Walter Yorkshire RJ: Walter Yorkshire CO: Walter Yorkshire Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 132 Karma: 379 Joined: Feb 5, 2012	Posted on Mar 21, 2012 Just wondering what the threshold for this is. It is a lot easier avoiding illegal activities if I knew at what point things become illegal :P
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Mar 21, 2012 It's a secret, and I change the filter all the time :-P Besides, not showing up as suspicious doesn't mean I don't get to see them.
Walter Yorkshire RJ: Walter Yorkshire CO: Walter Yorkshire Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 132 Karma: 379 Joined: Feb 5, 2012	Posted on Mar 21, 2012 How could I expect it to not be a secret :P Oh well, I will start paying the government more commission then :P
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Mar 21, 2012 Yeah, if you keep doing what you're doing, sooner or later I'll have to change the purchase script to detect player id and company stock status, and then apply the filter accordingly so I don't have to manually mark your messages.
Bob Fenstermann RJ: Bob Fenstermann Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 5 Karma: 17 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 4, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 4, 2012) I just got this after buying a couple of items that were very low priced ($0.10) per unit. Now these were likely to be listed at either $1.00 or $10.00. 1 would also be too low and 10 would be too high. Is this a protection measure or could I stand to lose something I legitimately bought? Edit: I just saw your money laundering post. I could see how this could be used for that. If you find any issue with the transactions you flagged for me, please let me know.
Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 5, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 5, 2012) I'm mildly confused about this as well. During the aftermath of all this drama, the newly appointed CEO of MERC (new CEO because they had like 10% ownership of a gutted company) saw fit to sell off everything they could at fire-sale prices. I got approximately 4mil of electricity at 1c a pop, which I intended to use, thankyouverymuch. Now I log on to discover a 500k outstanding loan that I never had before. In my alerts, I apparently had "gone to court", and though "found not guilty" of laundering, I owe "lawyer fees" to the tune of the difference between the lowest market rate on electricity (11c) and what I paid (1c) - 400k. The game took out a loan because I didn't have enough to cover the difference. That's a bit of a bizarre way to handle all of this. Can I sue MERC because it ... I dunno ... improperly notifying the government of its liquidation, causing the suit against me? :/ Even trading at $0.20 a share, it has a 10x market cap on me. :P
Bob Fenstermann RJ: Bob Fenstermann Post Rating: 6 + / - Total Posts: 5 Karma: 17 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 5, 2012 "Your company was accused of being involved in a money laundering scheme, but was found non-guilty after paying $400k in attorney fees." Please consider this as constructive feedback and not a ragequit. There is no way that I did anything that was wrong here. If buying something listed on the market at "below market" rates is not allowed and is penalized, then it makes it very hard to play this game. I am trying to take this (semi) seriously and when you can capriously whack players without cause, it doesn't make it fun. That is what I have a problem with here. That penalty made it no longer fun. Don't get me wrong, I loved the drama that happened yesterday and can certainly afford the 400k hit. What I can't deal with is not knowing what kind of transaction will trigger it. Did I sell too low or too high? Did I spot a great deal on the import export market that I shouldn't have taken? It's exciting enough trying to figure out how the market "PVP" works here. It is too much to factor in how seemingly normal activites are going to be policed. A suggestion would be to run the sell orders through your suspicion check before they are posted. Mark the suspicious ones and look at them. Don't put them on the market and let us get caught up in other people messes. I know this is a beta and you are still making changes, but this sucked almost all the joy out of the game for me. I am not quitting, because I really like this type of game. But, please consider my suggestion.
Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 5, 2012 +1 what Bob said. Also, it's not realistic at all! Companies always get fined less than what they made on shady deals! :D
Josh Millard RJ: Tex Corman CO: J. Quaff Arabica Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 167 Karma: 231 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on Apr 5, 2012 I picked up some ridiculously cheap apple juice the other night, which I was chalking up to market silliness before I got caught up on the drama and realized it was part of the goonish liquidation program. That buy got understandably red-flagged what with the sort of epic clusterfun it was tied to. I haven't checked for a debit for the cost difference, but I couldn't exactly complain if there was one; I prefer to buy poorly-priced goods under less fraught circumstances, and I can spare the difference.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 6, 2012) I'd say you shouldn't worry about it if you're fined with only $400k attorney fees . Yes, you've been caught in the crossfire, in fact, countless ones did and many were ignored for gaining less than $200k. I'm sorry for getting you involved, but I'm most certain you were fined 200k or 300k LESS than what you gained. I would be able to write out the exact transaction that triggered it, but please understand I cannot provide the details for every player in a manually written message simply due to the sheer number of companies involved. If you really would like to know - just send me a PM and I'll run a query to mark it for you, and then you'll see a warning when you visit one of the pages below (normally accessed through the B2B market sub-menus): http://www.ratjoy.com/eos/market-history-purc.php http://www.ratjoy.com/eos/market-history-sales.php I marked them for you Bob.
Bob Fenstermann RJ: Bob Fenstermann Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 5 Karma: 17 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 This is the ragequit: Your response that I should, essentially, suck it up, is not acceptable. I didn't ask for any money back and I know the transactions that caused this to happen. I said that in my first post earlier in the thread. My point was that I shouldn't have to second guess whether I am going to be fined (or pay attorney fees) whenever I see a good deal. This is your game and you can set up any rules you want. Unfortunately, I can't play it. Good luck. I hope to come back a little further along in the beta to see what you have done.
Newton Venture RJ: Rehab Submarine CO: Rehab Submarine Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 46 Joined: Apr 1, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 I'm inclined to agree with Bob a bit, as this seems pretty open for abuse. Example: I have a ton of money and know that other players will get fined if I sell cheap goods on the B2B. So, if I so desire, I could put my water in the market for .05 and anyone who buys it is fined for doing so. I might be fined aswell, but if I'm lucky I hit a few others just as bad. A very simply solution to this is to simply not allow all goods to be sold below the market value or cost (which, I think should be allowed anyways... selling goods below cost to drive out businesses should be allowed in a free market). Additionally, or instead, simply flag the transaction at the point of sale, and don't put it on the B2B market until it's looked over.
Paul Chambers RJ: ppiixx Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 And there seems to be a bit of a race to the bottom with water pricing right now. I think I got fined for buying 0.04 water yesterday but there is plenty of legit looking water at 0.05-0.06 today
Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 6, 2012) Aye. And I just purchased a carton of orange juice (that is, one single unit) that was on the market for 1c. Someone mispriced. I leapt, again. Will this result in 400k in lawyer fees? How do these fees scale? Are they automatic? If they're automatic, I should see in the market pre-purchase that they'll be flagged for review. And the cost of lawyer fees should be proportional to how good the deal is. Then I can make rational purchasing decisions.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 6, 2012) Bob Fenstermann: Your response that I should, essentially, suck it up, is not acceptable. I didn't ask for any money back and I know the transactions that caused this to happen. Bye Bob, as much as I appreciate an active poster like you, if you can't bother to check that page after I marked the $1mil+ apple juices for you, it's not my problem. Tony Wooster: If they're automatic, I should see in the market pre-purchase that they'll be flagged for review. And the cost of lawyer fees should be proportional to how good the deal is. Then I can make rational purchasing decisions. It all depends on the # and scale of the abuse: Player A using a private company to sell products at a lower price to another company owned by anyone is generally considered accepted. But a problem would arise if the products are worth 50%+ of the selling company's networth and sold for $1. On the other hand, a public company doing the same thing is generally fraud, especially when the player is related to both companies and using it for the gain of the private company. Adding a warning certainly fair, so I'll do that. ------------------------------ As for the other more recent "suspicious" activities, you can ignore most of them - I need to update the filter after the economies of scale factor brought the cost down by 50%.
Chandler Hill RJ: Chandler CO: Chandler Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 54 Karma: 113 Joined: Mar 25, 2012	Posted on Apr 6, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 6, 2012) I think there's just some confusion as to why people buying cheap stuff off b2b are getting screwed. Why isn't it just seen as a company strategically selling product at a low price? It just seems awfully subjective, is all. Edit: like, now I could grief people by selling 100.000 water for 1 cent, right? That's silly. Maybe I wanna transfer that water and someone snipes it. Maybe I just want to be philanthropic. Maybe I want someone to buy it and get slammed with lawyer fees and cackle evilly.

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