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Huge barriers to new players

Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron Barr Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 52 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 Just started, but want to comment on the new nightly costs. I've been trying to experiment with different strategies to build up a company. I guess the best way now is to have a diversified product portfolio so you can sell in a store or on the B2B market. The problem I've been having is that as a new company I have very low quality and low quantity factory outputs. Now that exporting was nerfed that is not an option, and B2B sales will have to be low margin to attract a buyer. Fine, but now that profit margins are razor thin and nightly costs are huge, I'm looking at a few thousand profit daily. R&D facility for Industrial products is 1 million. And that is again the base slow as hell starter building. Kind of pointless to continue, unless I want to spend years working up. Theres not really any strategy here. Just mindless grinding and grinding. Love the concept here, really want to like the game. But I feel like it will take forever to even start expanding into something interesting. I'll spend 8 months working my way up to quality 15 plastic... oh wait thats already available for import.
Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: -3 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 No strategy... hahahahaha... yeah keep thinking that... PS. Plenty of ways to make money as a new player (read: millions in 1-2 days), you just have to be smart(er)(than others) and *drumroll* go about it strategically.
Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron Barr Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 52 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 ok, double your networth in one day? other than abusing the stock market please tell me how this is possible. I'd like to play this as a product seller. Or if I'm just this stupid fine, hopefully a few more people will respond and say I can make millions in a day from day one if I'm strategic.
Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 8, 2012) Stock market being one of course, but can be unreliable. I doubt anyone will tell you the great ways to make money directly, after all it'd be less money for them. Knowledge is power and the basis for any strategy, and thus the first step would be to procure it. The game provides many ways of doing so, from looking what other companies produce, sell, their graphs and finance pages etc, in addition to statistics for each individual product - which is VERY useful. Use the above and create your strategy to maximizing profit, how much that is, all depends on you. As a basis for just how much you can potentially reach, one of my companies using between 2.5-5mill (which you can get if you sell starting stuff (don't do that blindly though - have a plan in place first!) and a loan) hit 800+ million networth in 8 days. (Note to people now frantically searching for that company; that company now has competitors and as a result the money is nowhere near what it used to be) How? Well I identified products everyone was ignoring and took advantage of it to the fullest. As for one of my companies you can follow, show info on AMBM-SPORTS, which was taken over yesterday with 58 million in debt and barely any cash. That company will compete in an already competitive environment so no monopoly as with the other company and pays 20% of daily income to my CEO. The goal, pay back loan within 1 week and 100mill+ networth. Note: don't try to directly copy someones buisness model, it's usually built around their timescale and mindset, that's why some makes tons of money with certain buisnesses while others with the same makes very little.
Galf 506 RJ: Galf CO: Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 8, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 uh, just one question first game, and I'm not that good at this sort of stuff: is there a "start back from scratch" button? I don't make enough to repay maintenance and the stupid loan
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Apr 8, 2012 Seems like everyone's asking for it, so I'll make one.
Galf 506 RJ: Galf CO: Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 8, 2012	Posted on Apr 9, 2012 Thanks man. I've changed my mind on starting back for now, but it would sure be a nice feature... though it might be subject to exploiting, dunno.
Zack WenJian RJ: Zack CO: Zack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 114 Karma: 503 Joined: Mar 31, 2012	Posted on Apr 9, 2012 i just find the biggest barrier in game is the export market got really good quality~! loL i dont quite understand the reason behind it, it seems to benefit only people who do retail. my only suggestion is lower quality to Q0-Q5, or remove importing of end product~ X_X
Random Tester RJ: Tester CO: Random Tester Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 26 Karma: 46 Joined: Jan 21, 2012	Posted on Apr 9, 2012 Well, it's intended so people who actually invest in research can benefit in it once they start selling on the B2B. Did you notice Elry's jewelry quality? I was scared when I looked.
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012	Posted on Apr 9, 2012 I agree with Wuvil that you can do ok in the beginning if you try. I made a costly ($1million) mistake in the first 30 minutes, and I am hanging in there pretty good. Thing is, I also find Wuvil's attitude one of the biggest impediments to the game as a whole. If the platform is too small in scope, (and it is) then this whole game will implode pretty quickly. This is a beta of only 500 active (so they say) players, and already you have saturated markets, sky-high research levels that punish the hell out of beginning players, and a number of topsy-turvy product lines. (is that really how you think you should play salt?) If the milieu is too small to help newbies with out being afraid for your own market share, then there is something wrong with the NPC AI, and the entire scope of the market platform needs to be revisited. Between game-testing companies that have outgrown the actual game environment, a stock market that will likely over-react to any player moves within it (again, not enough scope to absorb a single large player/team of players out to move it) and a general attitude of "let's game the system at every opportunity" (where most games ban you for exploiting obvious bugs and flaws...they must know something) have all congealed to make Arron's concerns relevant at the very least, and a sign of how much work truly needs to be done to keep this project from turning into Crime Lords, or some other straight up PvP for the craven and sadistic at heart. It will certainly never live up to the friendly atmosphere it falsely advertises on its front page. I mean, the next great project is "sabotage"? Really? Let's get snorkels and swim goggles on a factory list somewhere so they can be manufactured before we worry about how to sabotage each other. I would have thought you all would have had enough of that already! I wonder what it is the developers really want to accomplish here. If any of you beginners would like some strategic help, You may contact me in-game, and I will be happy to try to assist you, though I have only been here a few days myself. If it turns out the game is too small for us to show mutual respect and help each other, while being able to thrive within the game, then none of us will be here long anyway...
Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 9, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 9, 2012) I am truly not sure what you are complaining about me for... As a new player you have it much easier than I did and you can make money significantly faster now than when I started out. Additionally I spend hundreds of millions every day buying stuff on B2B and made a company specifically to sell fruit/food just to help new players. If some people (which there are) refuses to invest that money wisely into research (i.e. selling Q0 still 1 week later, rather than at least 10-15 which is VERY easy to get) and sensible expansion that's hardly my fault. Scott also has a list of over 10 pages of more stuff he wants to add, so this will hardly be everything the game will have. Also, demand is based primarily on factory sizes, more factories = more demand. Stores increase it a little too, as does advertising, oh and higher quality increases it too.
Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012	Posted on Apr 10, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 10, 2012) Agreed Would also save me a few thousand clicks every day :P
Jayle Trigger RJ: Berry Punch CO: Applejack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 93 Karma: 85 Joined: Apr 9, 2012	Posted on Apr 10, 2012 +1 to Aaron Barr Putting out Buy orders on the B2B market place would be great. Looking for X item at Y price at a minimum Z quality. People can see what people are in the market for... and decide if they want to get into it or not.
Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012	Posted on Apr 10, 2012 It's already on the list folks. I asked for it two months ago. Patience, it's a beta (-:
Jerehme Bamberger RJ: Delton Bruton CO: Julius Crenshaw Post Rating: 2 + / - Total Posts: 4 Karma: 11 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on Apr 10, 2012 I find the moral indignation in this thread amusing, to be honest. This is one of the more realistic economy simulations I've come across. Just think of the real economy: people are CONSTANTLY break the system, outgrowing it or changing it. New factors arise, markets crash, bubbles form and burst and there's a TON of money and risk an adventure for anyone audacious enough to really dig in. If you don't like griefing and abuse of every possible pattern and technicality, play a single player game. I don't know of any online multiplayer game where there aren't people dastardly enough to exploit bugs and imbalances, and I gotta give it to Scott for taking the same approach the government does to these things: "If I catch you, there will be consequences." Any hedge fund manager will tell you: Breaking the Rules is part of the game. And lots of people would hate being investment bankers, so maybe the haters just aren't a good match for the game. All that said, I want to echo the other folks on this thread: information is the supreme lord of your existence in EoS. How much is ground beef trading for? How many firms have it listed on B2B right now? How long have each of the listing been there? If they don't last long, demand is high. If it's the same four names, either demand is low or those fools have their prices too high. And so on and so on! Or say you wanna play the stock market: I've begun to be able to tell, just be watching the graphs, when the hivemind is getting skittish on a stock. I've made hundreds of k (not much, but I'm building little by little. Modest stock gains can be transfered into major, long term income streams by investing in infrastructure) this way. Just my thoughts. Take em or leave em! I'm an anti-capitalist, after all. I expect you all to be utter scoundrels of the utmost ruthlessness.
James Tate RJ: Nickelas James Tate Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 33 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 11, 2012	Posted on Apr 11, 2012 All the strategy doesn't matter when you can't compete in the same matter with your other players. There is no strategy that can be employed that can beat lower prices and higher quality. There is no strategy that lets you sell better with worse quality in saturated markets, generating low sales per tick. No matter how awesome you are at stratagems your stone spears can't defeat a tank. (Unless it's a Civilization Game.) New players can't compete, that not from a lack of strategy. It part from lack of understanding how the game works and burning through all your starting cash, not having any meaningful starting resources and starting the game later then veteran players. There one group that a new player can employ strategy against and have a chance at coming out a head, and that against their peers. The folks that start playing the game near when they did. But filtering the game out where players can only compete against their peers would make the game seem a lot emptier then what it is, and would probably be a none trivial task. (Gotta define what a peer is through the game metrics ect.) But there are things that the game can do for new players. First, I wouldn't make it a fiv million loan from the bank. This doesn't match what you're setting up as the generic starting story for you as a player. You're inheriting an establish business, that's been operating for years. That payment in Interest is only hurting new players. You're disallowing their Ability to take on the Consequence of getting a Loan. (Though new players should be able to get a loan from the bank from the very start. This would probably play better to veteran players then to new players.) The game demands you from the start to start researching and diversifying your factory outputs, but you're only given One starting Factory Output that at a None-Crap Quality Level. (At least the Quantity is decent though.) New Players should start out with more then one Factory Output. I don't the number, but 3-5 seem decent. They can even be at tiered quality levels, but I dont believe any of them should start at Quality 0. (Especially since you need to to do 6 Tech Levels to get quality 1 production.) And I think the game should start you out with a fruit patch, maybe 50m^2, (thought your personal starting money, the implied back story suggest that it was very sizable.) This would let players get 4 digit quantities in a pretty quick around of time, but also let new players start playing faster (which is what those instant builds are all about.) And the player should start with a Shop of similar size, with a market presence already present, already starting to sell their starting fruit. (And I think only their starting fruit.) Remember, you're starting this game with the backstory that we're inheriting a successful business that was in play before we started. Therefore it should be in play as we start. I havent actually checked my vague figures here, but the Basic Set Up given to players should represent a self sustaining business, (If they remember to set production queues and have the prices set up correctly.) The current default one, ins't self sustaining business, which is stupid. You're not starting a business from scratch. And you shouldn't be starting a business from scratch. This game is intended to be complicated, so new players need someplace soft to learn the game. These shouldn't be hard changes to implement into the game as it stands. There lots of other neat stuff the game can do for the start, but that doesnt matter for now really.

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