Ratjoy.com » Forums » EoS General Discussion » Math of Supermarkets v2.0
You need to register or login to post a reply.
Math of Supermarkets v2.0
|
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 Scott, I am mystified by the idea that you keep giving away the formulas for all you your inner workings. I don't think I have ever seen a game site do that. After an hour or so on the forum, one would have enough info to not even need to play the game, since they would pretty much be going through the motions. I don't know why the real maths geeks even bother playing after a few days, since it is all there for them already.I have seen players work out various derivatives on their own and share them with each other. But never have I seen a developer or producer or any representative of the management team confirm a player's guesses. Even when it seemed a pretty good bet that it was spot on. They have all kept the man behind the curtain...behind the curtain. I see so many things I like here. This has so much potential. But then I see something like this and have to shake my head, laugh and call my best friend Mike, another game geek and IT guru, and find out if I am nuts. Again, I know this is a beta, but...LOL |
|
Billy Vierra RJ: Saffrian CO: Billy Vierra Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 84 Karma: 100 Joined: Apr 10, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 I dunno I have played a number of games similar to this (where math was a huge part of the game) and have never had a developer hide the formulas. The one thing I have hated (and stopped playing) is when a developer changes a crucial variable and then doesn't say anything.If you want to hide the formulas, that's fine in my book. However if you ever change a static variable at least let everyone know. Maybe not what it is, but at the very least, I will change the formula for demand on product X in update Y. Otherwise you think you understand how something works and bam, it just doesn't and you don't know why. |
|
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 12, 2012) I have never seen them given out so freely. I totally agree with making drastic changes without notification. Even when the formulas are hidden, that is a real bite.I popped back in because I forgot to tell McFlono how impressive and helpful his work is. As a new player, it is something that gives me food for thought.(get it...supermarket...food for thought...never mind 8-D) I ppreciate that you are sharing this, also. My first few minutes in this game I stumbled into the drama-games of market fixing stick imploding and cheating, etc... And the discussions were pretty childish and negative. When I see this kind of assistance and information given freely, it balances my skepticism about the viability of the community here. Thank you a bunch for that. And your work here. Thank you. Oh, and I just found you are are head of Das Froot. My favorite supplier! You do it right, dude. |
|
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 I now have a couple of questions.Why did you target $1 wholesale as the production target? What is the significance of that? Is there another chart around here that indicates other industries beside food? Thanks or your efforts. |
|
Billy Vierra RJ: Saffrian CO: Billy Vierra Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 84 Karma: 100 Joined: Apr 10, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 Brent, while I didn't write any of the code, I have been working with it for a few days now. For the target $1 wholesale as production target I am not sure what you mean. Are you talking about changing the selltime?
|
|
Dariush Legion RJ: Dariush CO: Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 13 Karma: 18 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 13, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 13, 2012) I figured out the perfect formula. Assuming infinite goods from importing, the most profit will come from selling at exactly twice the importing price. Proof:http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1194/423864f699d64589af7 034b.png http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6683/c4c2e17201774efca 1f526a.png (er, forum made spaces in the links) It doesn't even depend on quality, average world selling price or anything else. |
|
Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 13, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 13, 2012) Brent: When supply and demand are in balance, goods sell in proportion to their wholesale value. So ideally one wants to supply equal amounts of goods in proportion to their wholesale values. My company is nowhere near producing one wholesale dollar per second of every single good in my product line - it's closer to 30 cents - but I needed a baseline and $1/s sounded about right.Note that the product lines have changed since then, so the base factory sizes will have changed since my original post. If you want a chart for something other than supermarket goods, you'll have to build your own spreadsheet I'm afraid; I'm spending too much time on this game as it is. I'm glad you appreciate my contributions; I'm here to have fun, not just to win, but I'd also like to try to win honestly by making and selling products rather than exploiting the instabilities inherent in the market system (-: @Dariush: Congratulations on going where two players have gone before! I posted the "secret" about two months ago, and Josh (I think it was) also worked it out about a week ago. |
|
Dariush Legion RJ: Dariush CO: Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 13 Karma: 18 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 13, 2012 Oh. Well. Sorry. I'm not particularly active on the forums, so I wasn't aware of that. :)
|
|
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 14, 2012 McFlo: Thanks. That is exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.
|
|
Jose Junta RJ: Sotto Voce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 2 Karma: 10 Joined: Mar 28, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 16, 2012 Looks like $category_price_multiplier has been changed to 1.1 for some goods I'm selling.
|
|
Nathan Dilday RJ: ndkid CO: ndkid Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 46 Joined: Apr 17, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 17, 2012 I've been looking at this equation, and pondering the math, and I wanted someone else to check me on this.Postulates: 1) We are selling goods with a set quality and infinite supply (i.e. the import market) 2) Your effects on average price, demand met, and average quality are negligable (i.e. you are a small retailer) 3) You are selling a product that is not > 35 points below the average world quality (this isn't strictly necessary, but let's me remove the MAX function to make my point clearer. Theory: The most profitable (per tick) price to set a good at, given those postulates, is twice its cost. Math: If you go over the variables in the equations Scott provided above, the vast majority of them are, from the perspective of the retailer, constants. This is obvious in the case of $selltime or $price_base; but with the postulates I give above, we can treat values like $price_avg and $quality_avg as constants, as well. If we do that, we can describe the equation above in this way: The number of units of a good sold is inversely proportional to the square of the price at which they are sold. Thus, doubling your sale price means you sell 1/4 of what you did before; halving it means you sell four times as many. (For the econ junkies out there, this means EoS currently has uniform price elasticity across all goods.) Now, for any given good, calculating the per-tick profit is pretty easy: profit = (sale_price - cost)*quantity_sold. (If we wanted to be more sophisticated, we might want to divide out the labor and building costs of our retail stores, but it won't affect the overall point much.) Now, above, we saw that the quantity sold was inversely proportional to the square of the sale price. This means that, to maximize our profit, there are only two independent variables: sales price and cost. So, given the cost, if we want to maximize profit, we can figure out the right sales price to do so. If anyone is interested in the calculus, I can write it out, but, basically, when you take the basic equations quantity = C/price^2 profit = (price - cost)*quantity substitute the first for quantity in the second, find the maximum by setting the first derivative equal to 0, and solving for price, you end up with: price = 2 * cost Given the postulates I started with, does anybody see a hole in the math? Are any of the postulates particularly unreasonable for a young retail startup? (It seems likely, though I haven't taken the steps to prove it with any rigor, that once one is attempting to sell the goods they produce themselves, the rule likely becomes: profit is maximized by selling at no less than twice the cost to produce the good, and only increasing price from there when one's means of production cannot keep up with the demand provided by that price.) |
|
Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 17, 2012 Nathan: That's exactly the same math I've come up with, and what Mister Death has also confirmed in various posts.
|
|
John Smith RJ: Petri Dish CO: Johann Smith Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 42 Karma: 11 Joined: Feb 27, 2015 |
Posted on Mar 5, 2015 Are the currently used formulas known? I tried out the latest formulas posted on this thread, but they seem inaccurate :-( Also noticed they didn't seem to e.g. take marketing effect into account. Plus of course the category_price_multiplier(s) and sell_times might have changed ..
|
You need to register or login to post a reply.