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On the ease of crashing markets
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 Roald: I don't know what you mean. I'm buying up all the cheap goods for purely altruistic reasons of helping out newbies.
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 (Sarcasm aside that actually *is* why I'm doing it. I did notice after the fact that it's not an entirely benefit free operation though)
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David MacIver RJ: DRMacIver CO: David R. MacIver Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 47 Karma: 56 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 Actually, thinking through this it doesn't work. The export price sets a lower bound on the price of strawberries which is about 5x that of producing it myself.
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Riloth Heldwall RJ: Shadowy Mollusc Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 16 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 9, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 11, 2012) I think the real problem is that all new player automatically start with a fruit plantation. The first thing that new player are likely to produce before they figure out which niche their company would specialize in is often the fruit they started with, leading to excess supply in the fruit market. Perhaps one way to alleviate this problem would be to allow new players the option to start with any one of the bottom tier (resource extraction/farming) factories. That way we won't end up with chronic over-supply in any single sector of the economy.
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 11, 2012) My plan on solving this would be to assign newbies to a new industry, probably fishing, after the next major new products patch.
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Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 Another thing that might help -- and might help a number of other issues, as well -- is to expire B2B listings after, say, three days. It wouldn't necessarily help in a true logjam of prices, but I could see it being a potential mitigator assuming players aren't all too on top of their B2B sales. It'd also get rid of that $85 bacon that's been up for a week now...
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 11, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 11, 2012) I was thinking about that actually, but instead 14 days - and charge a non-refundable listing fee instead of final commission.
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Matthew Suozzo RJ: Buckaroo Bonzai Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 40 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 If there's going to be a single listing fee, I think you should allow the lot to be re-priced. Not only would this prevent anger over price typos but it would make B2B more accessible and easy-to-use.
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Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 12, 2012) Yeah with listing fees we need to be able to change prices, I personally prefer a fee on the sale instead though. If time limit, definitely a minimum of 14 days, large (read: huge) batches sometimes take a while to sell, while some products are sold by us as a service to other players but may not necessarily sell regularly. ps. not to hard to make money AND help newbies at the same time ;) |
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Zack WenJian RJ: Zack CO: Zack Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 114 Karma: 503 Joined: Mar 31, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 12, 2012) it didn't crash, it just hasn't reach the equilibrium yet.strawberry is a perfectly competitive market. Once it reach zero economic profit, where D=P=ATC=MC, then competitor(or you) will exit from this industry. Which means anyone who enter the industry will find themselves losing money, and they have to exit the market. If you find yourself not having much profit, you should exit the market already. the only thingi suggest is newly registered player should not have any industry, but just pure cash so they can decide which market to enter. |
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 There is a VERY simple solution:Sell factories, build farmers markets, buy from B2B. |
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Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 This is an interesting conversation. I have to wonder why players with that kind of production capability is just plunging stuff on the market. Don't they have anywhere to sell it or reprocess it on their own without having to B2B it? Again, I am new here, but this seems to reinforce my general impression of the state of things. On the one hand, you have mega-corps with such powerful research that they can park the 9-strings of goods on the market, over-priced, and drive up the general Q-level of the market making it harder for newer players to maximize areas of their own marketing. Then you have players like Dave, (whom I hold mo malice toward for crashing my strawberry farmer's careers ;-) ) whom apparently got bored and decided to crash a market by dumping his overly-powerful production yield out there for grins, and again made life hard on newbies. Several markets are headed to the bottom in just the short few days I have been playing. One thing I have higher regard for than when I first started gaming in these sites, is the idea that the higher the level you get, the less productive you are. Not a lot, just a bit to help balance out the weigh of your size against newbies. I wonder if a more aggressive NPC buying entity could help. I very much like the export market here, in principle anyway. I think it might be a place to maintain a balance against these kind of issues. If the prices of the export market never go below the stated "wholesale" on the product page, (which is a totally worthless exercise, given that you aren't actually maintaining a wholesale...so why publish one...it only confuses players that expect it to mean something) if the export market was used in that way, it would make low-balling the market less attractive, since any newbie could now buy your goods and put it on the export market. The more I think about it, I would use that market vehicle for quests, too. With a certain Quality in mind. Whatever you choose, one thing is clear: you have players that have been around so long, and gotten so big, that you have a real mismatch between their capabilities, and that of the general group. I think this is still meant to be a game, so keeping a level playing field, to some degree, has to be kept in sight. No matter what you do, there will be mega companies in the game. But they should never be in a position to crash markets and kill each others stocks, etc... That just isn't fair to the young and less adept players that are just trying to enjoy themselves playing a game. One last thought: I very much like the idea of giving newbies more choices of starting industries. The tutorial is sufficient (barely), so maybe set them up in it, then let them choose from the couple of base industries that you think fit to get them started after they complete the tutorials. I would not like to see us forced into one group only, or you just end up with the same problems again, eventually. |
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Roald Adriaansen RJ: Wuvil CO: Wuvil Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 146 Karma: 281 Joined: Feb 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 Then there are those smart newbies whom were using that cheap strawberry to make new products out of and they have been making a lot of money (for a new person that is).
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 12, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 12, 2012) The restart function is now available in the settings, let me know if there's a bug.Also I'll do what I can, and keeping the playing field fair IS one of the targets I'm aiming for. But also keep in mind I'm a tyrant and I've played hundreds to thousands of games, so whining can only affect my decision by a bit... and I'm only 1 person with so many things to do :-( I'd suggest simply selling your buildings (or restart with a blank slate), and work on the strategy first: What would you do in real life if you have millions sitting around and the raw material costs are dirt cheap? |
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Lorenzo Boccaccia RJ: Mon Opoli CO: Mon Opoli Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 80 Karma: 71 Joined: Apr 10, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 13, 2012 Ultimately the problem is that the market *is* working correctly; but newbie don't know enough to react and, say, change to watermelons. Probably a couple fake company to absorb excess production and moving the surplus up the chain could help, too: imagine a scrip that magically deletes limes under a certain price and goes crashing the lime gelatin market - it should obviously take into account current products up te chain and fill the voids effectively |
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