Ratjoy.com » Forums » EoS General Discussion » Can I Have Loads Of Free Research, Too?
You need to register or login to post a reply.
Can I Have Loads Of Free Research, Too?
|
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 I'm pretty sure I hinted about this coming up since v0.20 :-P
|
|
Nwabudike Morgan RJ: CEO Nwabudike Morgan CO: CEO Nwabudike Morgan Post Rating: 5 + / - Total Posts: 108 Karma: 344 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 I hear reports of some Q1 research taking people 10 hours now. The penalties for being ahead of the curve are immense and unnecessary. The cost of high quality research was already very high.
|
|
Control Volume RJ: ControlVolume CO: Control Volume Post Rating: 17 + / - Total Posts: 43 Karma: 122 Joined: Mar 31, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 24, 2012) Well research costs are ridiculous for some q1 research now, which punishes people starting out in an under-produced industry.It might be a better solution to decrease research times/costs until they reach the average, but once they reach the average, time/costs go back to normal. |
|
Ham K RJ: SoftThenRough CO: Spartacus Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 69 Joined: Apr 8, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 ^^^ CV has it right
|
|
Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron CO: Aaron Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 81 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 Yeah I can't really wrap my head around what the formula could be. Suddenly I have stuff in the fashion R&D that Q1 is 4 minutes, then next item Q1 is 10 hours. Q1 used to always be like 10 minutes at base R&D size. So I guess the world average is so low that it now takes 60 times as long?
|
|
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 I think the new system works better with time, so there's no need to change and make it more complicated than it is.I haven't tested this, but theoretically it should be possible to start a company, do some researches, sell the company, and make a profit. (just don't wait too long) Player to player tech sales will come along at a later time. I'll display the world average somewhere in the pedia. |
|
Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 I'm trying hard not to whine about my frozen food research suddenly taking weeks instead of days, so I'll just say: I think that the new system will give you massive headaches when you go to set up R&D queueing. If I want to set things up so I'm researching X five days down the road, and the price and time double (or halve) from now till then, what happens to the following item in the queue?
|
|
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 24, 2012 That's a good question. I certainly don't want to add another "store system" into the game.So let's just assume when start your research, you're simply using some existing technology - and while you're researching with that small R&D, the world changed and new "frameworks" or "standards" came along to make researching easier - and you face a choice of cancelling your project entirely to start with a new framework, or stick with it till the end. I reduced the time by "5 levels" after reviewing the stats, but the costs will stay as they are. |
|
Innocent Bystander RJ: Matthew Matician Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 76 Karma: 54 Joined: Apr 2, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 (Last edited on Apr 25, 2012) I went to look at the new costs for research and was floored by how much it cost. Granted it's one of the most expensive items to make and therefore research, but my passenger plane body cost went from approximately 100M to 500M to research q23. That'd be okay by itself, but I think the unintended consequence is that there is no incentive to research since I can already buy (and make a decent profit) by q30 items by importing items in any industry. What's the point of spending untold billions on research (that's just one part out of many, too) when the bar to get q30 items (not just airline industry) is so low?The other thing it might do is negatively upset the balance between required R&D building size and money. Judging from my R&D screen, research seems to take about the same amount of time as before (my memory might deceive me) while cost for research skyrocketed. The net effect of this is that investing in larger R&D buildings does nothing for me since I can't afford to keep all buildings actively researching things now anyways. I think a solution that makes the most sense in my admittedly biased opinion is to keep research cost/time the same as it was before, but reduce cost/time on a sliding scale from level 1 to level Avg/2 (or some other "middle number"). I thought the old price/times were pretty reasonable as they were. |
|
Innocent Bystander RJ: Matthew Matician Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 76 Karma: 54 Joined: Apr 2, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 Another thought that occurs to me: making above-average levels cost (in time or money) more than they used to also unfairly benefits existing players, since they already have their (more cheaply-obtained) research and the new player or more-recent player does not.Of course, at the end of the day, this is your game to do with as you wish. :) |
|
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 Since I know it's much easier to explain this issue with math, I'll just post the relevant idea on what changed:Before: Cost = x * level^1.2 Time = y * level^1.2 Now: Cost = x * (level+20-world_avg)^1.2 Time = y * (level+15-world_avg)^1.2 and therefore the discrepancy you noticed. A higher time (+ value) will block entry into other markets for new players, so I'm using (+15 instead of +20) until the world average for everything goes above 20. The reason for the huge increase for passenger plane body is because the world average quality is too low in that area, and you're the forerunner. I wouldn't be surprised if your networth suddenly skyrocketed due to that reason, although it'll fall back down when the world average quality improves in those areas and your researches are worth less than they are worth now. In some sectors dominated where the average quality is relatively high (Jewelry, Fruits, Mining), the costs and time costs have been significantly reduced. R&D is still relevant unless you plan to stay near the average level. |
|
Ham K RJ: SoftThenRough CO: Spartacus Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 69 Joined: Apr 8, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 Will you release a list of the average tech for each field? Like just a list or table where they are all listed would be GREAT! Thanks =]
|
|
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 It's in the pedia, I'll edit those lists another time. (Don't want to mess up the player-created scripts with sudden changes)
|
|
Nick Wright RJ: Marx Post Rating: 5 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 15 Joined: Apr 1, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 I'm sure you've already considered lots of ways of balancing tech costs, but here's my take on it. I've plotted your tech cost coefficient (that's everything after the x in your formula) against tech level (along the bottom). I've assumed an average tech level of 30.http://i50.tinypic.com/jkzrzo.jpg The red line is the old coefficient, the blue line is the new coefficient (using the equation you posted above - the one that's currently live) and the green line is one I've come up with. It seems to me that, you're not giving a boost to newbies, rather just adjusting the cost for everybody across the board. If the average tech level is above 20, everyone gets a discount, if it's below 20, everyone gets a penalty, regardless of what your tech level is. Here's another plot, showing the cost coefficients if the average tech level is 15: http://i50.tinypic.com/2cql0li.jpg So, with an average tech level below 20, the price goes up for everyone. This is based on the equations posted above. I'm not really sure this really achieves the goal of giving newbies a boost. The equation I used to get the coefficient in the green line is: e^((a - b)/a) * (a^1.2) Where a = tech level being researched, and b = average tech level. What this does is give everyone a discount as the approach they average tech level. When they reach the average tech level, the cost of research is the same as it was previously, and when they go beyond the average tech level, the cost of research gets progressively higher. I think this would have a normalising effect on tech levels across everyone playing, allowing newbies to compete and allowing people who invest heavily in tech to stay ahead of the average. Maybe it might be worth considering? Also, using the new equation (the one currently active), you might be raising a negative number to the power 1.2. I'm not sure how that's calculated on your server, but MS Excel (for example) doesn't like that unless you explicitly use a complex power function. It might be worth checking how this is handled. |
|
Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: 5 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on Apr 25, 2012 Wow, just got up and watched weeks worth of work cheapened to dust. Talk about giving away the farm. Is anything ever done in gradual increments?
|
You need to register or login to post a reply.