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Erving's Idea - Multiple Products in Stores

Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 44 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 16, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 23, 2012) Let me begin with: It's NOT HARD to make the change, programming-wise. But I just want to get some thoughts before making this change (and the next time somebody will probably ask me to do the same about factories, R&D's, etc.) So, dear CEOs, please let me know your answers to the following questions: 1. Do you think we should allow stores to sell multiple products at once? If yes, please also answer the following questions: 2. How many products should be sold at once? 3. Should it to possible to sell the same product of same quality? Of different qualities? 4. Speed-wise, should it be faster if the store is only selling 1 product versus selling many? (Also consider your answer to question 3) Programming-wise, the easiest solution would be: 1. No The next easiest: 1. Yes 2. 4 3. Yes, Yes 4. Each position sells at 25% of original speed, fill all 4 with the same product and you see no change at all!
Erving Maxwell RJ: Erving Maxwell Post Rating: 10 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 229 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 17, 2012 Well I know that Keep It Simple Stupid is a common mantra in game design, but really I'd like to see a great deal of complexity. I think a supermarket should carry up to as many items simultaneously as it now has as options. An industrial complex should involve intricate and interdependant mechanisms that require expertise from the player. I think if you develop a robust system of supply and demand, then the economics would be able to support something like that.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 10 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 17, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 17, 2012) If my focus is to keep it simple and stupid, then this game wouldn't exist :-) Making the stores selling everything at once would be interesting... It'd also call for fierce competition too, do you really want this? (I'll wait for 3 days, if there's no other opinion, I will revise the system based on this idea)
Erving Maxwell RJ: Erving Maxwell Post Rating: 10 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 229 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 17, 2012 Well actually, I've been thinking that it would foster cooperation. Early on, I had assumed that the stores would work like that. I immediately came to the conclusion that a single player would be hard-pressed to supply everything for a supermarket. I would need to buy things from other players for my supermarket, and they would need to buy things from me for their supermarket. If I'm just selling oranges from my single product supermarket, I have no reason to buy those limes and cherries on the B2B. A little off-topic here, I get a kick out of people offering those horribly overpriced limes and cans on the B2B in the hope that some rube will buy them by mistake. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to profitable business relationships. It's the whole reason I set up the Businessman's Club thread.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 17, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 17, 2012) I see what you are thinking, since all players start with a 200 m^2 farm, your model will work right now. Here is what I am thinking: Since factories can only produce 1 product, there will be a time when there are, say, 100 factories and 100 stores, but only 10 factories are producing lime, and 5 of those 10 are used on next-tier products such as lime soda. But all 100 stores want to sell lime, no matter the price - because otherwise their space is just wasted. This will really mess up the B2B prices. [EDIT:] But then again maybe I can do the following things together to correct this: 1. Make the store equations steeper so price changes have a much greater effect - so pricing beyond a certain price means 0 sales, period. 2. Add maintenance cost (buildings, workers, ...) 3. Dynamic pricing - based on past sales and world tech levels. and thus a high purchase price from B2B will lead to losing money instead.
Dani Jonker RJ: Darkdani51 CO: darkdani51 Post Rating: 10 + / - Total Posts: 34 Karma: 186 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 18, 2012 In RL Supermarkets sell multiple products at a time, so ill say yes if we can sell multiple products at a time.
Erving Maxwell RJ: Erving Maxwell Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 229 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 19, 2012 Well if you do consumer demand properly, you won't have to set fixed prices for final sale, although of course the products should still have some kind of weighted values, so a passenger jet is naturally more valuable than a pile of bricks, even apart from the higher cost of production.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 19, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 22, 2012) Right. Fixed price is only temporary. With the existing comments, I've actually decided to make the change. I was actually thinking about this one last night while in bed, and here's what came up in my mind: MAJOR EDIT: In the new system, 1. Stores will be able to sell EVERYTHING at once, sales will become tick-based (15 min.) 2. Quantity is automatic - for players who did anything in the past 7 days, the stores will still operate (so you can safely go on vacation for a week and everything will still work) - unless a player sets a HALT on sales of any product(s) in any store. 3. Players can still set prices for each item, although estimates will no longer be available. The player will have access to a line graph showing time plotted against price and sales quantity for each product in each store, and text information on market share (I think pie chart would be nice eyecandy here, but I don't want to make the software bloated by adding extra api, so let's deal without it for now) 4. Actual sales quantity will depend on the following: base value, quality (+), company fame level (+), company market share (for that product) from the previous 72 hours (+), avg sales price from the previous 24 hours (//comment: I would love to use median, unfortunately it is database inefficient) Estimated deadline for the new system? I don't know yet, but I'll be working on it.
Erving Maxwell RJ: Erving Maxwell Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 229 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 20, 2012 What about my idea for EoS to represent an Emerging Market (3rd World Country beginning local industrial revolution)? It seems like you might have intended that, with all the players starting as small-time family agricultural companies. If we do it that way it should involve these elements: Very little heavy industry. People get by on subsistence farming, low-tech craftwork etc. Labor should be cheap and poorly educated. Basic necessities should be in high demand, as long as they're cheap. Colonial import/export system. Sells raw materials and cash-crops, buys foreign technological hardware. Needless to say, the one is cheap, the other expensive. For these three reasons, it's a golden opportunity for new industrial empires, provided they have the will and the expertise. Rich countries interfering in our affairs. Possibly even controlling a puppet government. It's a mixed bag. Some want to keep Eosland poor so they can exploit it, others want to invest in development. Overall a complex situation filled with opportunities and pitfalls.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 20, 2012 Thanks for your enthusiasm! I will totally consider it, but I haven't the slightest idea on where to start for the coding on your suggestions yet, but I WILL plan on it. My previous thoughts (that I KNOW how to code) on government is pretty simple: each week 1% of all players get elected as government official (chance depends on personal fame level and $$$ spent), lasting 4 weeks. So between 3-4% of all players will be officials at anytime, <4% because of new players coming in. They can vote on issues affecting every player, or can do "bad things" to gain $$$ or research advantage or other things at the cost of lowered popularity (which may get them fired before their term and may include fame penalty). The government must also deal with subsidies, consumer pricing index, environmental issues, and other things, a very low popularity may cause a coup and cause anarchy for some time (bad economy and everyone fired). Now with your idea, maybe I can add a Import/Export as part of B2B (instantly sell to 1st world countries ... "cheaply"), and government options to vote on "succumb to foreign demands", "reduce tariff on foreign goods" and the sort.
Dani Jonker RJ: Darkdani51 CO: darkdani51 Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 34 Karma: 186 Joined: Jan 14, 2012	Posted on Jan 21, 2012 Scott your right, what about a import and export from other cities like: President of USA asks 20 million copper :P
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 21, 2012 ... Maybe 20 million barrels of petrol? Could certainly do that after the government system, I'm sure he won't ask your company for it.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 24 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 22, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 23, 2012) I got a question that is a little complicated... In the new system (as of the latest PLANNED revision), the store sales mechanism will work this way: As long as the player is active within 7 days, the game ticker will look at all of the active player's stores, and for each store it will look at all products the store can sell, and for each product it will look at the active player's warehouse to search for the product and try to sell it at the player's listing price UNLESS the player have put a NO SELL on the product (will be done in warehouse). Now, the question that just came to my mind is: What if that player has different qualities of that product in the warehouse? Certainly we don't want to sell the same quantity 3 times, or simply divide the normal quantity by 3, and I don't want to make it SO COMPLICATED that you need to assign a different price to EACH QUALITY OF A PRODUCT for every product in a store. My FIRST thought: Players can assign a single Q0 price for each product sell-able by the store. Higher Q means higher price (based on Q0 price), and then just divide the normal quantity sold by however many different qualities there are. Pro: You can have say... Q15, Q16, Q17, ..., Q30 Oranges in your warehouse, and they will all be sold proportionally. Con: It will make each update a few hundred milliseconds longer. (Game will be slower when that happens) My ALTERNATIVE thought: Players can assign a single price (for ALL Q), and of course customers will just buyout any higher Q product there is, leaving the lower Q in your warehouse until all higher Q's are sold out. Pro: Cleaner prices, cleaner code. Con: Unless you only have very few or no Q20 Oranges (or if you put a NO SELL on it), your Q15 Oranges won't sell at all. Please share your thoughts if you have a better way that wouldn't be either impossible to code or make the game impossible to play.
Garry Hurst RJ: jackosbournelookalike CO: jackosbournelookalike Post Rating: 19 + / - Total Posts: 151 Karma: 21 Joined: Jan 23, 2012	Posted on Jan 23, 2012 1st Reply: A supermarket should operate like a real life supermarket, I should be able to sell 50 different brands of peaches if I so choose, however the number of products should be limited by available space, sales should be dependent upon quality of supermarket, and quality of product. Example if i shop at supermarket A and they have peaches from Nigeria for .25 Cents and supermarket B has peaches from Georgia, at .50 cents and again I visit the fresh market at supermarket C and they have Local Peaches for .75 cents. In reality all three of those peaches could be sold in the same supermarket, and at all three prices. That said I also want to add the pricing v.s. units/sold per hour/min/second etc.... If supermarket is a high quality market, sales would naturally be high quality low volume and supply would be short on some products, also a high quality super market carries less products overall, so ponder this different levels of supermarket not only increase speed of sales, but allow market to sell less items. so if in 15 minutes a 10m^2 market sells 150 apples at 3.75 then a 20m^2 market might sell 75 apples at 4.25 Note these aren't proposed rates just examples. Now for ease or hardship of those ideas, not sure, do they have to be immediate? of course not! ok so thats all for reply 1 now on to reply 2.
Garry Hurst RJ: jackosbournelookalike CO: jackosbournelookalike Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 151 Karma: 21 Joined: Jan 23, 2012	Posted on Jan 23, 2012 Scott: 1. yes 2. ALL 3. yes 4. Read reply 1 in previous post.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 12 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on Jan 23, 2012 (Last edited on Jan 23, 2012) Thanks for the reply Coding-wise anything is possible. Just that some approaches are easier to code or are easier on the server while others are not. As for usability, the only approach I can think of for setting different prices on different qualities of the same product WHILE optimizing performance is: Do in all in the warehouse Only problem is it would make the warehouse even more excel-like than it already is, and it will make the stores page useless except for showing you charts and graphs. Actually, do it on the select quality screen in stores, but make it the default screen under where the charts and graphs will be.

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