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Arbitrary or Inconsistent Enforcement of the "Rules".

Control Volume RJ: ControlVolume CO: Control Volume Post Rating: 183 + / - Total Posts: 43 Karma: 122 Joined: Mar 31, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 (Last edited on May 7, 2012) Posted on the behalf of another because Ratan is having a meltdown and deleting anything that makes him look bad: Yesterday player(s) using the same method that Walter Yorkshire has been using to conjure money out of the thin air (issuing stocks to phantom investors and artificially inflating the value of the company, rinse repeat) bought out the entire B2B several times over including every single piece of furniture and lumber my company had on hand. Sadly I can't access the logs any longer for an exact figure, but this amounted to millions of pieces of furniture and lumber produced over the span of a week by a company with a net worth of around 1 billion dollars. Having sold out ALL our stock overnight, I set just about everything to upgrade, increased dividends, and reinvested my compensation and share of said dividends by buying up the outstanding shares of my company. Today I log in to find this: "You were asked to repay $3 trillion in unfair compensation from Goon. Unfortunately you've already spent the cash, so Ratan Joyce confiscated all your shares of IDEA to cover the fines." The last day that my company ran at full capacity it generated 130 million dollars in revenue. After the retail nerf made hardware store sales drop off by 50% I queued up a ton of office supply stores and built up a stockpile of goods which one or more of these bought up in one afternoon. The fine assessed was for 3 billion dollars from 2.7 billion dollars in revenue. My items were worth less than nothing, apparently! When I asked why I had my company confiscated for selling overpriced goods while Prophet Empire and Walter Yorkshire have not been fined or punished at all for conjuring billions and billions of dollars through stock manipulation I was given this as an answer: "From my perspective going from 10 G to 300 G is merely a scale issue, especially when the company is doing business as usual and an indispensable part of the supply chain; while going from 10 mil to 3 G and to buy out all the B2B items from people who list it at heavily inflated prices only adds more complaints (and therefore more work to me), and I'm sure you don't like more work either." Prophet Empire legitimate revenue for that week: ~180m IDEA legitimate revenue for that week: ~360m Maybe it's the fact that my company tripled its net worth overnight that got me punished? Prophet Empire May 3 - May 4: 14g to 45g IDEA May 6 - May 7: 983m to 2.9g "Also, an exploit is an exploit, and as the holder of the largest exploit (admin power), I get to judge what is right and what is wrong. If you've not played normally up till now, you'd get jailed for 1 month+ in addition to the company loss. If you've been helpful with the ideas/bugs/votes, you may have your penalty cut in half or less. As there is not any set laws here, I'm just doing what I believe is morally responsible. Am I wrong? To some people perhaps. Would I do the same thing if it happened again? Certainly." This is true, it is your game and you can enforce the rules however you see fit. If you REALLY think that punishing small or midlevel manufacturers for selling their items while ignoring market exploiters making hundreds of billons is the 'morally responsible' choice we will have to agree to disagree, I guess. I think that this game has a ton of potential but I certainly will not be joining it as long as there are two sets of rules for players depending on how you feel about them.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Sigh, I can't delete your post CV, and you know it. Now, can the whiners just get back to playing the core of the game instead of complaining about who's at the top of the rankings - be it JOI, Walter, or the unknown future player? I had to make a decision whether to release the game as BETA or to wait for everything to be coded/tested/patched and release it then, and I chose the former. Now there is no way to go back.
Control Volume RJ: ControlVolume CO: Control Volume Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 43 Karma: 122 Joined: Mar 31, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 It's not the top players that people are complaining about, Ratan.
John Bouton RJ: John Bouton CO: LOL Post Rating: 4 + / - Total Posts: 20 Karma: 27 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 The issue isn't that Walter has a lot of money it's that he made a lot of money using an exploit and you didn't punish him for it while you punished others. I would get back to playing the core of the game where you research, manufacture, and sell finished goods to people and stores but I can't because I had all of my money invested in my company. This leads right back to my core complaint which is that a person who used a company as a stock issuing ATM gets rewarded while someone who built and sold actual products gets the shaft.
Bob Malone RJ: Bob Malone CO: Malone Post Rating: -2 + / - Total Posts: 341 Karma: 191 Joined: Apr 17, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 There are currently many users exploiting some game weakness, and many people taking direct or indirect advantage of it, so what's the point to whine right now about some potential unbalanced decision ? This is a beta, its purpose is to discover such possible exploit and fix them, we have to keep this in mind, and live with that... We just have to cross fingers that everything would be consolidated/fixed on the new server, and for this, let Ratan works on feature/bug fix instead of doing pointless SEC police job...
John Bouton RJ: John Bouton CO: LOL Post Rating: 24 + / - Total Posts: 20 Karma: 27 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Because the game might get a reset in a few weeks but the decision making won't. I feel like this thread is becoming about Prophet Empire and Walter when that wasn't my intention. I posted this wall of text because I think the reasoning behind the punishment of others and lack of punishment for Prophet Empire showed bias. I think how the game is run when it comes out of beta is just as or more important than how it is coded and that's why I spoke up.
Tom Atlas RJ: Tom Atlas Post Rating: 26 + / - Total Posts: 3 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 26, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Difference between exploiting and game-breaking. Clearly Walter was exploiting in a game-breaking manner that was 1) obvious and 2) easy to stop. Seems the goons did the exact same thing and used the same exploit to buy up the entire B2B which Walter could have and still can do at any time. There's a difference between players gaining wealth fairly or exploiting in unknown or hard to fix ways, but when players like Walter are OBVIOUSLY exploiting to gain wealth in ways that can ruin the game for all it's ridiculous and not only ruins the game for everybody else, but threatens Ratan's ability to gain future players. All it takes for a game like this to go right in the shitter is for a few dedicated players to get turned off because Ratan is allowing his friends like Walter to run wild in-game and exploit. Word of mouth is the only way games like this survive and I certainly wouldn't recommend anybody I know to play if Ratan is essentially encouraging exploiting when players like Walter can cleanly get away and slap everybody in the face. Beta or not it's easy to fix and this is just poor game administration.
Nwabudike Morgan RJ: CEO Nwabudike Morgan CO: CEO Nwabudike Morgan Post Rating: 20 + / - Total Posts: 108 Karma: 344 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Action taken by player: player exploits hole in low-population beta game! Hooray! People know about hole! Also, player buys everything to screw with people/market. Response by administrator: time to ban people who didn't even exploit bugs! Woohoo inconsistent dictatorship, go me! Look at the sanctity of that to-do list over there! Everything's fixed, right? Thoughts of administrator: My game won't flop, even though it has already stalled out in population at 500 people! Punishment of certain active players in a game that's going to be reset is relevant and important! Deleting people's posts on my forum with its terrible karma system is the best way to fix the problems they are telling me about! Also, it's okay for me to occasionally swear with an asterisk in the word, because it's only a feelbad word if it's spelled out in full. I definitely never deleted posts or my entire chat client because of the exact same words.
Bob Malone RJ: Bob Malone CO: Malone Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 341 Karma: 191 Joined: Apr 17, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 I agree that it is pointless to punish users if decision is to start on fresh new database on new server. Anyway this world is completely out of control, so many companies took advantage ( directly or indirectly, volontary or not ) of some exploits, no decision/punishment can recover the situation, so the focus should be on fixing issue, not punishing people.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -3 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 I'm sorry I lost my cool over the actions of some players, and let me state this: I'm not associated with any of the players here in real life. But just to repeat the other point: Thanks for bringing the exploit out in the open, but is it truly necessary to repeat the exploit after it's been discovered and/or spill the damages over to the lawful players by buying everything out on the B2B? The result from this drama? Some banned players and many jailed, and Walter is not punished because doing it would make the market disrupters happy. I'm only human, and taking comfort in a sweet revenge is indeed delightful. I'm still smiling now thinking about those "fake bug reports" full of curses from the "evildoers" - only serves to tell me how much they loved the game and how angry they are now that they are banned from accessing it. so the focus should be on fixing issue, not punishing people. Thanks Bob.
Gustavus Brapst RJ: Gustavus Brapst CO: Gustavus Brapst Post Rating: 9 + / - Total Posts: 4 Karma: 36 Joined: Apr 22, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 "Some banned players and many jailed, and Walter is not punished because doing it would make the market disrupters happy." So the best way for me to get away with obvious exploits is to do it in such a flamboyant manner that it irritates a vocal portion of the playerbase?
Nwabudike Morgan RJ: CEO Nwabudike Morgan CO: CEO Nwabudike Morgan Post Rating: 18 + / - Total Posts: 108 Karma: 344 Joined: Apr 4, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 But just to repeat the other point: Thanks for bringing the exploit out in the open, but is it truly necessary to repeat the exploit after it's been discovered and/or spill the damages over to the lawful players by buying everything out on the B2B? Yes. This is the only way for people to make you realize that these exploits matter and to fix them. They aren't new exploits. The result from this drama? Some banned players and many jailed, and Walter is not punished because doing it would make the market disrupters happy. Why don't you fix the problems that people bring up instead of going, "Neener neener I am doing even more nothing about the situation! I showed you, bug exploiters! You can't control me!"
Tom Atlas RJ: Tom Atlas Post Rating: 17 + / - Total Posts: 3 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 26, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Didn't participate in any way for everything this weekend and still pretty outraged that Walter wasn't punished. Not saying that he should be punished because of what happened this weekend, but it's outrageous nothing happened when there was a huge thread with evidence of what he was doing that was a) exploitative, b) obvious and even confessed by himself c) free money printing, and just plain against good intent and gamesmanship. It's a massive failure on your part to have not responded to the initial exploit and then to get self righteous and defensive now that it happened again with even more negative results.
John Bouton RJ: John Bouton CO: LOL Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 20 Karma: 27 Joined: Apr 3, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 (Last edited on May 7, 2012) The result from this drama? Some banned players and many jailed, and Walter is not punished because doing it would make the market disrupters happy. I'm only human, and taking comfort in a sweet revenge is indeed delightful. I'm still smiling now thinking about those "fake bug reports" full of curses from the "evildoers" - only serves to tell me how much they loved the game and how angry they are now that they are banned from accessing it. Check out this morally responsible fella right here. By the way when I made a thread about arbitrary enforcement of the rules that was a criticism not a policy suggestion. Enjoy your spite based development system, I guess?
Aaron Barr RJ: Aaron CO: Aaron Post Rating: 64 + / - Total Posts: 81 Karma: 74 Joined: Apr 13, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 Nothing was done when the exploit was revealed by walter. Which good on him to do, thats the point of the beta, fix it but I don't see a reason to "jail" him either. And I don't necessarily think the whole point was to get walter in trouble this past weekend. It was really to drive the point home that when people are left unchecked "creating" billions of dollars in an economic sim it can drastically disrupt the game. I think the root of the problem came up when it was stated that nothing could be done about what profit empire was doing. So some players saw no other way to drive the point home than go hog wild with it. Call it a massive bug report. Instead of quietly creating a trillion in cash and slowly ruining the economy with massive inflation these players came out showed exactly what kind of damage was capable. It shouldn't be about revenge, its about helping bring to light flaws. I know many had posted threads on these forums regarding the stock share issuing and valuation problems, I posted in some of them pointing out faults in earnings and other financial processes. When problems keep getting brushed aside and obvious exploits ignored you're asking for problems. This whole situation should not be a surprise after all the reports.
Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012	Posted on May 7, 2012 @ NM Yes. This is the only way for people to make you realize that these exploits matter and to fix them. They aren't new exploits. You mean I'd actually ignore it if someone simply sent me a bug report stating they can gain billions in an hour and wreck the B2B with it?

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