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Bots
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rich tamura RJ: Shive Yarbles Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: -500 Joined: Apr 23, 2012 |
Posted on May 1, 2012 I don't know, I mean I used Zmud back in the day to basically automate play in Gemstone3. It's clear that scripting isn't frowned upon, but once somebody writes an automation script and shares it, the game is going to failboat.
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david wile RJ: Noxiousdog CO: Noxiousdog Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 25 Karma: 51 Joined: Mar 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 1, 2012 I actually like the idea of bots as it should start to eliminate some of the volatility. I do wonder about whether it then becomes a programming challenge as opposed to an economic sim, but I suppose that should make me hone up on my programming.
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 1, 2012 As we get more players the volatility should settle out.Plus some volatility makes the game more interesting. |
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Tony Wooster RJ: Johnny Appleseed Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 41 Karma: 51 Joined: Apr 4, 2012 |
Posted on May 1, 2012 I think we need some hard and fast limits for bot makers. I don't see anything wrong with bots specifically, but scraping things too often or other high-frequency operations should probably be "legislated" against, if only because it will tax the server.Second, since it's quite possible to play this game against yourself -- creating an efficient supply chain, etc -- and due to recent changes allowing technology catch-up, I doubt bots will be a detriment across players, especially with scrape rate-limiting. Funny enough, I know that my manual method of restocking my supermarkets uses more server resources (loading b2b, import, compare, reloading, etc) than a similarly-purposed and even marginally efficient bot would. +1 Let's get some basic botting/scraping rules. |
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Bot Byrne RJ: Brandon Bottmann Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 1 Karma: 11 Joined: May 2, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Hi, I'm a bot. I run BottMart. I scrape the site around twice per day to find the best deals on the B2B, or failing that, imports, and automatically restock my stores. I don't do a lot of small buys like some other more annoying bots do, and overall I try automate the sorts of things a player would do. I'm written in Python and my source is a trade secret. See you on the B2B!
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George Melons RJ: Albert Rubin Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 13 Karma: 19 Joined: Apr 9, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 You know guys, I'm pretty sure that even if the situation OP described occurs, you could just message the bot's owner and tell him to fix things. Not like they do that on purpose. Just pointing that out.
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Alexia Perdhaer RJ: Alexia Perdhaer Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 100 Karma: 30 Joined: Apr 6, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 David Baril: "Second, all the players without any programming skills won't be able to compete against the bots' programmers."People who can't read will not be able to compete as well either. On the other hand, allowing bots may allow people who find too much clicking painful the ability to compete better than they would otherwise be able. I'll grant it's still a little early in the century to compare complaining about programming skills being an advantage to complaining about reading being an advantage. But it's coming. Have no doubt. |
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Does it seriously take you guys that long to stock stores? It takes me barely an hour to completely stock a gas station checking B2B and imports. And then just let it run for however much stuff I bought (like a weeks worth usually).
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Bob Malone RJ: Bob Malone CO: Malone Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 341 Karma: 191 Joined: Apr 17, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Personnaly I have to restock every day, and it's quite painfull. But if it was too easy, it would be too easy money also...
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Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Andrew: A gas station has "only" 75 items. A supermarket, 164. It's taking me 9 ticks to restock, and if I didn't love the game so much it would be a serious deal-breaker. The only thing keeping me going through the Valley of the Shadow of Death is the prospect of the interface fix, Any Day Now(tm)...
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Paul Chambers RJ: ppiixx Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Joined: Apr 3, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Yeah, trying to keep 198 items in stock (supermarket/farmers market / food court) in stock is what drove me to write my bot.Latest script run: 102 items needed restocking, 65 were available and 18 were worth purchasing. |
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Brent Goode RJ: BB Goode CO: BB Goode Post Rating: -3 + / - Total Posts: 506 Karma: 180 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 People who can't read will not be able to compete as well either. On the other hand, allowing bots may allow people who find too much clicking painful the ability to compete better than they would otherwise be able.That's just a dumb argument. The bottom line is that it is a form of cheating. Ratan specifically mentions not wanting to see them proliferate. But they will have to get distributed eventually to keep the playing field level. Or, you will have to ban them entirely for the same reason. If people don't want to go through the process of hunting or clicking or, heaven forbid, reading, then they should find another game. Checkers, maybe. |
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Mister Death RJ: McFlono McFloninoo Post Rating: -2 + / - Total Posts: 266 Karma: 300 Joined: Feb 6, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Bots per se are not cheating, Mr Goode.Yes, it is possible to cheat using bots. It is possible to cheat using the B2B. It is also possible to cheat not using bots. It is also possible to cheat not using the B2B. But I'm going to guess you don't want to ban the B2B, which means you need to give me a better argument about why bots should be banned. |
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Andrew Naples RJ: Clemen Salad CO: Clemen Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 214 Karma: 89 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 Dude thats barely coherent.
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: -1 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on May 2, 2012 I think bots are unfair but not cheating.But then the same logic would pretty much state "having better math skills" is unfair as well and not cheating, and so on and so forth. So let's just say bots are not banned and not cheating, but please be responsible (to yourself, to the community, and to the server) with your scripts, don't distribute them, and fix any errors that may be caused by interface changes. As for the users who received bots from others (in case they violated the distribution rule) - make sure you know how to fix them, or your account may be permanently jailed when I notice your bot to be failing constantly. I may jail the bot giver instead if you report whoever gave you the bot, and that bot exhibits the same usage patterns. |
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