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5/6 ANNOUNCEMENT
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John Bouton RJ: John Bouton CO: LOL Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 20 Karma: 27 Joined: Apr 3, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 5. [Invalid Assumption] Players would just sit around while you let your pal become rich off a bug.
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Tom Atlas RJ: Tom Atlas Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 3 Karma: 50 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 You're ignoring the fact it would have taken you 2 minutes of time to punish Walter originally, and even if the exploit was still active it would show the player base it was not acceptable. Instead you didn't and now you're being defensive and childish.
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John Bouton RJ: John Bouton CO: LOL Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 20 Karma: 27 Joined: Apr 3, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 He's not ignoring it. As he stated before he likes Walter so Walter gets a pass. What he ignored was the possibility that someone who didn't share a friendship bracelet with him might use the same bug.
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Sean Wright RJ: Mr. Wright CO: Sean Wright Post Rating: 196 + / - Total Posts: 32 Karma: 112 Joined: Apr 5, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 Like I said on a previous post:@RATAN/SCOTT and everyone seems to be missing the whole point of this! There is no reason to punish anyone in a beta for uncovering a bug. Once it has been uncovered, it should have been moved to the "fix" list. Until it was fixed, any further use of this bug whether it was the person who found it or someone else should have resulted in some form of disciplinary action. Had Walter been punished for his continued use of the exploit similar to the way Howard Roark was there wouldn't have been this massive problem. Ratan use your time to fix the game. Use the Supreme Court and create an SEC to handle disciplinary actions. Exploits are going to happen whether or not the game is in "beta". The rules and disciplinary actions need to be fair and consistent. Great job punishing the disrupters, but leaving Walter to go free when he clearly used the exploit many times after it was reported alienates those who play the game fairly and causes unrest as you should be able to tell by the hostility of some posts. The responsible thing to do is jail Walter and fine him the way you did Howard Roark. Maybe not give him life since he helped point the bug out and that is the whole idea about beta. But he deserves to be punished. You owe it to the people who play your game to be as fair as possible. Otherwise, you will lose players because it appears that you are playing favorites. I want this game to succeed as it is incredibly fun. Also, just like in real life sometimes it is fun to try to get away with things. People will always try to exploit, look at Enron. So use that as part of the game. Use your Supreme Court for people to file complaints/lawsuits. Create an SEC so you can hand off looking through logs to figure out who needs to be punished and by how much. And YOU work on that really long list. I think your game is great and you are great at listening to people and trying to make it better. But you don't have time to play peacemaker too. Thank you for all your hard work. I know you have your hands full and sometimes you wonder why you do this when all people do is whine and exploit the system. But you have a great game! I love it. So I thought you should hear a thank you! |
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Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 I have to agree with the guys here that blame Scott. We all know that Walter exploited the faulty system and at the time people were complaining about it but Scott claimed that he can't do anything about it which implied that it was acceptable. Now that one person use an exploit to grow to No. 1 and it is okay to do that, others will have to do the same to compete so we see copycat trying it including me less successfully.We know using B2B to transfer fund is not acceptable, but we saw that it was okay to transfer fund and exploit the stock price by issuing shares, paying bonus or dividend. It'll be unfair to other players if only one person is allowed to do it. This is what Scott wrote about what Walter did: ... I can't do anything about it as opposed to the pump and dump schemes that's making a lot of shares "stinky". |
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 From the other thread - the current state was caused by some invalid assumptions on my part.1. You were only able to issue more shares when you control 80%+. 2. If share prices increase, you'll still need lots of player cash to buy it up, and this can't be done lawfully without B2B money-laundering from public to private companies. (-> Jailed) 3. [Invalid Assumption] Cheaters are smart and would like to remain at the top, and not to appear there for a few seconds or to disrupt the B2B. 4. [Somewhat Invalid Assumption] The dividends and bonus package from issuing new shares are not enough to allow purchase of newly released shares. While I agree with others this is something that needs to be fixed, the nature of Prophet Empire's exploit is completely different from the nature of the crowds' unnecessary attacks. The failed assumption #3 is what set me off. I thank all of you for kindly bringing the problems/imbalances to my attention in whatever ways you see fit, but beta or not, you should considering leaving NOW if you don't have the time/patience to wait for things to improve. If everything can be fixed as soon as they are said, we wouldn't have poverty in the real world. Also my thanks to the kind players who are/will be sending me sample revenue sheets so we can improve the system. |
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Michael Tsui RJ: Reisen CO: Reisen Udongein Inaba Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 45 Karma: 30 Joined: Apr 26, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 B2B disruption is actually one of the better ways to make more money, legit. Imagine if you have a monopoly on electricity generation.
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Bob Malone RJ: Bob Malone CO: Malone Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 341 Karma: 191 Joined: Apr 17, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 I may understand wrongly how it works, but if the share value is increasing when people are buying some shares, it is not correct. If there is a buyer, there is a seller, I do not see any link with a share price which could increase or decrease independantly.IMHO, share value should be directly function of company value (1st order )+growth perspectiv ( 2nd order ) +dividend perspectiv (3rd order). And dividend should be stable enough to not manipulate the share price. ( you define it and after that you can increase/decrease it by a few percent every x days ) |
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Balon Swann RJ: Balon Swann CO: Balon Swann Post Rating: 32 + / - Total Posts: 19 Karma: 15 Joined: Apr 12, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 So wait, when did Walter go and ruin the game for others by buying out the b2b? A lot of people are saying Walter did just as bad as the goons? But I don't remember him buying out the b2b or acting in a way that directly, negatively affected other players... Ooh, wait, he didn't... Y'all are just whining like a bunch of babies, my bad.
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A J RJ: amanbearpig CO: aManBearPig Post Rating: 3 + / - Total Posts: 54 Karma: 18 Joined: Mar 30, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 How is buying out the b2b wrong? I am not a "goon" nor affiliated with them in any way, and I certainly agree they did not act in the best manner, but purchasing items for sale on the b2b - even if purchasing everything - should be a person/company's right. The items are put up for sale for people to buy them, not to sit there to be doled out equally.If there was money laundering involved, then yes that is wrong and should be punished. Buying out the b2b? I don't think so. |
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Balon Swann RJ: Balon Swann CO: Balon Swann Post Rating: -4 + / - Total Posts: 19 Karma: 15 Joined: Apr 12, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 If I find an exploit in a beta, exploit it, get rich... Fine. If I find an exploit in a beta, exploit it, get rich, then use the ill gotten gains to intentionally, negatively affect others... Not fine. Really, you cannot possibly think that they bought it out as a normal part of the game? It was a malicious intentional act. Walter's intent was not to damage, the goons was. |
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Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: 1 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 Yeah, while the problem is the buying B2B part, without the exploit that allowed the goons to make crazy amount of money, we wouldn't have the problem with B2B buying. When Walter exploited the game and showed us the flaw, that was the moment to fix it and prevent something like what the goons did during the weekend. Or at least made it clear that it is not something that we are allowed to do. Take away the wealth that was created from the exploit and reset wealth of Walter and anyone profited from the exploit back to before the exploit. |
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A J RJ: amanbearpig CO: aManBearPig Post Rating: 0 + / - Total Posts: 54 Karma: 18 Joined: Mar 30, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 The ethics of how they accumulated their wealth is certainly debatable, but buying or selling a good on the b2b is neither something right nor wrong (again, ignoring money laundering). The items there are for sale by companies, and bought by companies. There is no net loss from the community. If all the items are purchased, all that money is circulating buying and producing goods. It's not a moral good or a moral evil.If it were possible to buy out the import market however, that would be disruptive to others. There, the money and items are gone from the system. Purchasing from others does neither. |
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Scott (Admin) RJ: Ratan Joyce CO: Ratan Joyce Post Rating: 3 + / - Total Posts: 1175 Karma: 5083 Joined: Jan 13, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 Final post and I'll call the issue closed.Let me begin by thanking anyone who made a valid bug report. Instead of trying to prove who is right or who is wrong, allow me to simply share my point of view. The issue with Walter running free is not only because I like him better (similar as to how I like any other bug reporter or forum player better), but rather caused by my misconception that issuing more shares isn't inherently exploitable without exploiting core game functionalities (unrestricted custom pricing on B2B), and thus the anti-money-laundering laws, and I also believed that cheaters are smart people who'd like to stay on the top and be admired by others, rather than cause widespread destruction and have their accounts jailed or banned. In my view, Walter did not cheat - sure he released many shares and boosted the company NW greatly, and the system is flawed. But he did not pay himself 20% bonus or 100% dividends as the cheaters have attempted. I'd be completely fine with it even if everyone followed his lead. This is NOT game breaking. Meanwhile the ask/bid change was and is always on the to-do list. If you look at it, the top company in the game is still a private company. If I were an ordinary player with any self-confidence, I'd have no issue with Walter staying near the top and supplying all those mineral and not affecting my "company-building-game". But the "creative bug reporters" wiping out the entire B2B and giving huge advantages to "random players" who "thoughtfully" priced millions worth of products at billions would actually affect my company-building-game, and I'd wish them to all be accountable, jailed, or even perm-banned should they fail to comply with fair play. |
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Victoria Raverna RJ: Victoria Raverna CO: Victoria Raverna Post Rating: 5 + / - Total Posts: 107 Karma: 43 Joined: Apr 11, 2012 |
Posted on May 7, 2012 (Last edited on May 7, 2012) While Walter's intent was not to damage the game, he did damage the game. By getting rich using the exploit and changed the top 10 ranking because of the exploit, he damaged the game for those that care about playing the game to try to get into top 10. He was rich before the exploit, but what he did also create secondary effect where some other stock owner got into top 10 just because they own the share of Walter's company.He made it pointless for people to produce stuffs, sell stuffs, and do all the other works to try to get into top 10 because it is not possible without exploiting the game too. To compete, you have to do the same. |
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